We were very pleased and lucky to meet Stéphane Ogier on our most recent visit to the Rhône region in France. Stéphane Ogier is a young winemaker and has taken over from his dad who used to run the family estate. He is part of this new breed of winemakers in the Northern Rhône area to really push quality higher and higher: His flagship Côte Rôtie wines, “Cuvée Belle Hélene” and “Cuvée Lancement” are probably some of the best wines out there. But now you might ask: why have we interviewed two Rhône winemakers in a row (Yves Cuilleron in July)? Because it is fact that the best Northern Rhône wines are some of the greatest in the world but do not have the fame they deserve. So we thought we would give them more light than others sometimes… Olivier Bourseau: Stéphane Ogier, you took over the family vineyards and succeeded to your father back in 1997. Have you ever thought about becoming a winemaker or did you make the decision later in your life? Stéphane Ogier: I knew I would take over the family estate very early. My father prompted me to do so without forcing me. He told me one day: « you will be a winemaker my son!» and I replied « why not?». It happened in a very natural manner. He then advised me to go to Beaune for school. At that stage other winemakers from Côte Rôtie had been, such as Gaillard, or Clusel-Roch. I thought it was good and I went. But I didn’t have the passion for wine at this stage. When you are young, you really think about other things. It wasn’t a very strong passion at all. I went to Beaune in 1992. I did my French equivalent to high shool and passed my A levels and then passed the technical classes (BTS) in viticulture and oenologie. It is really because I went to Beaune that things changed. I was with other colleagues, often winemakers sons, like myself, who then became good mates of mine. We see each other often! It is over there that wine became a real passion. I believe passion is very important if you are a winemaker. Otherwise it is difficult to make wine without it. It is actually not a job either. We live out of it but it has to be a passion. I think it has to be a passion if you want to do things completely. Olivier Bourseau: The winemaker job is a very difficult one from the outside, where passion for details seems to be very important to succeed in making quality products. How do you see it and what is the most important thing to succeed in your trade according to you? Stéphane Ogier: You need to be born in the right place first, it is already a very important thing! Because terroirs are not invented. I know that I am lucky to have been born in the Côte Rôtie area. It is a huge chance to have this heritage with me. Then I believe terroir is what makes everything. I mean it is the basis. You will never make a great wine in a bad terroir, that is for sure! Then it is about the winemaker’s work and his goal is to express terroir in his wine as best as possible and show it up in the wine as much as possible. Then the winemaker’s style will also appear in the wine but terroir should be the priority. Our job is in fact to look at details at all levels: it starts from the planting stage. There are so many different considerations and elements to take into account in the winemaking process that you have to care a lot about details from the outset. Planting is a lot about density, the clones you select, the pruning and training of your vines, whether you use treatment or not, the ploughing, and when you decide to pick. Then once you have picked it is all about the winemaking itself or vinification: which tank or vat will you use, which type of vinification you also use , how much extraction you do, how warm you do it, the maturation, the racking… And what is interesting is that there is no truth for all these stages of the production: each vintage is different, and for each new vintage, you have to think about it as a complete new thing. That what makes us move on all the time. If it was the same each and every year, passion would decrease. The work related to the vines is a little bit the same every year even though there are differences depending on the weather but at the end of the day, you never know what you will be getting at the end. So in terms of the style of vintage, you never know until you actually taste the wine for the first time. You never know what it will be like. You usually know whether you will have a good vintage depending on the weather that year, the picking date, but not on the style of the vintage which will be revealed when you taste the wine for the first time! Olivier Bourseau: Shiraz is the main black grape variety in your wines. It produces some of the most complex wines in the world within this Côte Rôtie area. Is it a difficult grape variety to grow apart from the fact that vineyards are located on very steep slopes requiring a lot of workforce because machines can’t be used? Stéphane Ogier: Nothing is easy. But I do not believe Shiraz is more difficult that Pinot Noir for instance which is much more difficult to grow. But there are many considerations to look at, especially with regards to the most recent clones we worked with. These are very important elements in the quality process. And I think this is one of the most difficult thing. Then what is difficult in the Côte Rôtie area is the lot configuration because everything has to be done manually. In terms of the grape variety only, we do not have any big problems with regards to diseases or rot because the area is very windy which protects the vines very well. Furthermore, Shiraz is not on average prone to rot or diseases. So you just have to be cautious. You have to look for quality of the grape variety through clones’ selection. My wines are made from Shiraz mostly, and a little bit of Viognier and Roussanne as well. The most difficult grape variety is Roussanne for me which is very “capricious” and very difficult to grow properly. It grows a lot and you have to control it all the time before it goes too far. It is very prone to diseases as well especially this year. Then it ripens late but very quickly and in one go so can change very quickly in one day or two. So you have to be very watchful with regards to the harvest date for instance. This grape variety is also prone to quick oxidation.. So you have to know what to do with regards to the sugar/acidity balance. Shiraz is a bit more relaxed to work with in comparison! Below - Chais of Michel and Stéphane Ogier Olivier Bourseau: Viognier, the white grape variety, can be added up to 20% to Shiraz (black grape variety) in Côte Rôtie wines. In practice winemakers tend to be in the area of 10%. How do you blend your Côte Rôtie wines and do you use Viognier in the blend at all? Stéphane Ogier: It is 0% for me! I make Viognier wines on their own. But I certainly do not want any Viognier blended with my Shiraz wines! I planted a little bit of Viognier on one part of Côte Blonde to have a try and being able to talk about it with more dispassion as it had not been my priority to blend Viognier with Shiraz. It is because I do not believe in it in the deepest of my self. I believe one can make 100% Shiraz wines with great finesse and elegance. You do not need to add Viognier to it. But I would like to make a few tries and be able to talk about it better. But it will be only experimental without the idea to do blended Côte Rôtie later. Olivier Bourseau: You own different vineyards parcels in Ampuis. Can you talk about the features of those parcels and especially Cote Rozier which you use for your flagship wine the “Cuvee Belle Hélène” and Côte Blonde used in your “Cuvée Lancement”? Stéphane Ogier: They represent the 2 big and different types of terroirs within the Côte Rôtie region. The multitude of different terroirs creates the wealth of the vineyard here. And what’s important for me with regards to the winemaking process is to turn to wine each parcel or plot of vineyard separately, to mature each of them in barrels separately and to do the blending between those parcels at the end of the maturation process. The reason behind this is that each parcel has got a different personality from another. Take for instance 2 different plots of vineyards on the same hill. The one at the top of the hill will produce a different wine than the one at the bottom of the hill, and this is fact! It is pretty much in the same spirit than in Burgundy where you have 2 parcels of vineyards touching each other but having 2 different levels of quality with a Premier Cru level and a Grand Cru level. If the 2 parcels had been delineated 500 or 600 years ago like so, it is with a reason which you then truly taste in the wine! It is not only the visual aspect of the vineyard. In Côte Rôtie, the different parcels can be grouped in 2 main types of terroir: the first group includes vineyards on the southern part in the style of Côte Blonde (name of a parcel), and all the vineyards in the Côte Brune (name of a parcel as well) area on the northern side. The 2 styles of terroir provide 2 different types or styles of wine: the « Côte Blonde » terroirs have granite soils with a little mica as well producing wines with finesse, more floral and fruity character, and much more rounded tannins. The «Côte Brune » terroirs have got brown schist and depending on which area some clay and iron for their soils. They produce more masculine strong and robust wines with more spices. Olivier Bourseau: We have been talking about this very extraordinary terroir producing very different wines. How do you transmit this into the wine without twisting or altering it? Stéphane Ogier: The winemaker’s intervention happens mostly during the extraction process when you have to pump over the juice on the cap (made of pulp and skins which floats on the surface) with the juice, or punch down the cap. So how many times a day you do this makes the extraction of tannins and colour higher or lower into the wine. Then temperature of the fermentation is very important as well and has to be maintained. It is simply to coordinate how much extraction you do depending on the type of vintage you have and depending on what sort of wine you want to make. The more you extract, the less finesse you will get in the wine and the more you will gloss the terroir. But then the risk of not extracting enough is to not utilise all the good elements of a good and mature fruit. So our job is very much about balance. And I think balance summarizes our work very well. From the vines to the bottle you have to find a balance and I think excess is never a good thing whether it is regarding the extraction or with regards to the use of new oak barrels. Some vintages will enable us to extract more than other vintages. And it is the same thing regarding the terroirs: the parcels in «Côte Brune » style are quite powerful and wines made from this can cope with more extraction. Then your feeling will also be very important by the harvest time. I really do not have any set winemaking framework I use. We work with our gut feeling really. Olivier Bourseau: 2003, 2004 and 2005 have been pretty good vintages on average for Côte Rôtie wines. How is 2006 behaving in barrels so far and how has been going the weather in 2007 ? Stéphane Ogier: Regarding 2007, I really hope that the warm weather will continue all during august and until harvest time. We could have a wonderful vintage if this happens. June and July this year have been both very difficult with lots of rains, which in turn makes the vines more prone to diseases. But so far it is not what will make the difference with regards to the quality of the vintage. The quality of this vintage will really design itself from now and the more we approach harvest time. If you look at 2004, 2005 and 2006, September really “made” the vintage what it is. I really like 2006 for instance. It is very similar to 2004 with very good balance and elegance. They also have loads of fruits and also a special feature for this vintage which I really like and find interesting: 2006 really has some sort of sweet tannins, as if the tannins were nearly sweet on the palate a little bit like 1997. It is the style of this vintage I reckon. I really like this kind of vintage which is close to Pinot Noir in style of wine (rather low tannins) a little bit like in 2004. It will be wines with a lot of finesse and elegance which doesn’t mean light wines. You have good depth and density in those wines but at the same time you have finesse. 2006 is very different than 2005 which is much more powerful in style, and currently a little austere with high tannins. The 2005 will completely close up after bottling for a few years so they are a good example of vintage for lying down. Olivier Bourseau: What are you favourite wines apart from the Côte Rôtie wines and what do you think about the New World wines? Stéphane Ogier: I made wine in South Africa in 1997 and 1998. And I taste a lot of Australian and Californian wines. I think they make very beautiful wines over there. They are wines where technology is a bit more important since they might not have the same wealth of terroir we have in France for instance. So it is for sure that the winemaker has got a bigger footprint onto the wine than the place where the wine is made usually has. In France on the contrary, the winemaker’s name is not as important as the place where the wine has been made. Burgundy is in my opinion the best for red and white wines. I also really like Riesling wines as well. They are my favoured wines. Côte Rôtie wines are the most northern wines within the Rhône region and I think they are the wines having the most finesse and elegance compared to Hermitage or Cornas wines for instance. They are also very close to Burgundy red wines in terms of style in my opinion. If you look at 2004 or 2006 vintages, you get even more elegance and finesse which makes the wines even closer to Burgundy in style and I love it! Making wines with this elegant and soft style is my real purpose as a winemaker, and much more than making atomic bombs such as the wines made in 2005! Olivier Bourseau: Thank you very much Stéphane !